Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

13:10

cheese!

ꓢPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek ...thats is clearly black magic. She works with Gorgonzola and anyone knows that gorgonzola comes from satan.

Journeyman Geek

13:28

Are you saying the 'special place in hell' is a cheese cave?

Tinkeringbell

I thought it was an ice skating rink...

ꓢPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek I am saying that moldy cheese is a creation of the devil.

Journeyman Geek

ah, I mean, I've had 'smells like socks' blue and 'good' blue....

but frankly neither of them is the worst thing I have smelt

ꓢPArcheon

And things like the Italian "Casu martzu" probably also required the intervention of Azathoth.

Casu martzu

Casu martzu (Sardinian: [ˈkazu ˈmaɾtsu]; lit. 'rotten/putrid cheese'), sometimes spelled casu marzu, and also called casu modde, casu cundídu and casu fràzigu in Sardinian, is a traditional Sardinian sheep milk cheese that contains live insect larvae (maggots). Derived from pecorino, casu martzu goes beyond typical fermentation to a stage of decomposition, brought about by the digestive action of the larvae of the cheese fly of the Piophilidae family. These larvae are deliberately introduced to the cheese, promoting an advanced level of fermentation and breaking down of the cheese's fats. The texture...

Journeyman Geek

more likely beezlebub

lord of the flies and all that

ꓢPArcheon

13:42

> is a traditional Sardinian sheep milk cheese that contains LIVE insect larvae

emphasis mine.

Journeyman Geek

I mean, dead insect larvae, would that be better or worse?

"Casu martzu is considered by Sardinian aficionados to be unsafe to eat when the maggots in the cheese have died"

Tinkeringbell

Makes sense, if even maggots can't eat it...

Where's that survivalist eating a way too big larvae clip...

ꓢPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek There are some alcoholic beverage that are produced by adding things like snakes, maggots, frogs etc to the base alcohol.

but those aren't alive.

Journeyman Geek

anyway, red fermented tofu...

avoid it :D

ꓢPArcheon

Here you are supposed to EAT the larvae

Maybe you didn't got that part. They DON'T remove the larvae. They are eaten - still alive - with the rotten spoiled cheese

Journeyman Geek

13:47

yup

ꓢPArcheon

and... it is also illegal. Because you know... It is a sever health hazard.

Journeyman Geek

Yup

ꓢPArcheon

Idiots still buy it on the black market and eat it.

Journeyman Geek

None of this surprises me?

Tinkeringbell

Me neither.

I've seen what people do for a drink in some other countries ;)

Journeyman Geek

13:50

Maybe it means food poisoning is in their future

ꓢPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek Technically, it is also possible that Alien is in their future.

Journeyman Geek

hm?

ꓢPArcheon

you know, the larvae are perfectly able to survive thru your stomach...

Journeyman Geek

oh, but if they got into your system, it would be a quieter, more painful death

ꓢPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek I assume you never saw Alien then?

Journeyman Geek

13:53

I know you're meaning chestbursters

ꓢPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek or, you know, Anisakis

Journeyman Geek

quiet. painful? Yup

ꓢPArcheon

14:11

@JourneymanGeek I would argue they would scream quite a bit. Not exactly quiet.

Journeyman Geek

14:26

→ 24 messages moved to Chimney

balpha

14:50

@ShadowWizzard a third bot overtook you, but you're still the top human

Tinkeringbell

Seems like some fun stats to have on the main site ;-)

For posterity :P

Josh Wolsborn

15:35

👋

EmmaBee

@JoshWolsborn 🫡 team emoji! 😀

Spevacus

o/

EmmaBee

@Spevacus whoever invented this one was a genius. My all time fav: ¯_(ツ)_/¯

ah weird, he lost an arm

Journeyman Geek

15:50

oh you need to escape the \

¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ like this

Josh Wolsborn

Are we bringing back ASCII emojis? Gonna have to find all my old AOL chat bots

Journeyman Geek

AHH NEW PERSON... I mean hello!

Josh Wolsborn

Henlo!

EmmaBee

@JoshWolsborn I learned this one means hi/wave: o/

Josh Wolsborn

__
(\,--------'()'--o
(_ ___ /~"
(_)_) (_)_)

its a dog

EmmaBee

15:53

Kinda :D

Journeyman Geek

I'm a little confused over the tail halo :D

Josh Wolsborn

yea that didnt copy and paste how I had hoped...mistakes were made

VLAZ

@JourneymanGeek They are all good tails, Brent

Journeyman Geek

lol

balpha

@JourneymanGeek From now on, @JoshWolsborn is the one you can blame for all the chat bugs, I'm out 😁

Journeyman Geek

16:01

ah!

EmmaBee

@JourneymanGeek Do we need to add Wheel of Blame to this room?

Journeyman Geek

lol

naw

I'll blame @balpha anyway, least till we get new shinies :D

Also chat has no bugs :D

merely undocumented features

EmmaBee

Its perfect!

Journeyman Geek

(mostly :D)

Josh Wolsborn

I mean @balpha isn't wrong. Going forward they are probably my fault

Journeyman Geek

16:05

@JoshWolsborn I'll keep that in mind :D

(also, whoa, chat updates are actually moving 0_0)

VLAZ

!!/blame

SmokeDetector

@VLAZ It's Spevacus's fault.

VLAZ

@EmmaBee already done :D

ꓢPArcheon

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Josh Wolsborn

Damn...now that is ASCII art. Puts my malformed dog to shame

ꓢPArcheon

16:10

totally wasn't copied from some random archive site

EmmaBee

16:21

@VLAZ you mean a Wheel of Blame bot?! (We have one of those in our internal Slack channels that triggers whenever anyone says "not my fault", it will randomly blame someone :D )

VLAZ

12 mins ago, by SmokeDetector

@VLAZ It's Spevacus's fault.

EmmaBee

How does it trigger?

controlgroup

You type !!/blame

!!/blame

SmokeDetector

@controlgroup It's Elements In Space's fault.

EmmaBee

lol!

!!/blame

SmokeDetector

16:23

@EmmaBee It's rene's fault.

VLAZ

It's a bit fuzzy if it really was rene

EmmaBee

Kind of intense ^ :D

ꓢPArcheon

mumble... let me try again.

SSSSSSSSSSSS@%%%+           #*%%%%%%%%%%%%+SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS@:+%###%,?SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS??;;;;;;;;*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%  #%%+;SSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS?%%%+#  ##      #*%%%%%%%%%%%%%.SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS?.*%######%##*.@SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS@?;;;;;?.%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%#  #%%+?SSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS?%%%+%  ##       **%%%%%%%%%%%%%;SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS?,%###########%####*:@SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS?;;;?:*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%  #%%%,@SSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSS@*%%**   #   #   #*%%%%%%%%%%%%%*@SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS?.%###############%#### #+;SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS?;?;+%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%#  %%%%:SSSS…

yep... kinda works.

Feeds

This is the biggest breakthrough since astronomers noticed that the little crosshairs around red giant stars starting to burn helium are all the same size.

ꓢPArcheon

It is also useless that you search this one online, I generated it.

controlgroup

16:28

@ꓢPArcheon my screen aspect ratio is messed up, doesn’t look like anything to me right now

Journeyman Geek

@EmmaBee I think yours might actually be balpha's fault :D

balpha

yep, the one in slack is github.com/balpha/wheelofblame

@EmmaBee have you ever seen the real OG wheel of blame?

EmmaBee

@balpha I don't think so? Was it invented not at Stack Overflow?

balpha

oh it was

one sec

ꓢPArcheon

            %*%%+           #*%%%%%%%%%%%%%                             ######%#                                #+*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%  #%%*#
            **%%+#  ##      #*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                         #########%%###                            %+*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%#  #%%+#
            **%%+%  ##       %*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                    ##############%######                       #+*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%  #%%%,#
            %*%%**   #   #   #*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%#                ##################%########                  #**%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%#  %%%%,

@controlgroup This one ^ ?

Journeyman Geek

16:34

@EmmaBee internal chats used to be on bonfire/SE chat :D

so I belive the OG one runs... either here or the mythical 4th server? :D

balpha

I'm showing her around the abandoned mines right now

@JourneymanGeek they're here

EmmaBee

@balpha IT SANG ME AN ENTIRE SONG

haha

Journeyman Geek

@balpha ah, it was a long time ago, and mostly hearsay :D

balpha

For anyone curious, the song that the wheel plays is an excerpt from this:

You Broke It

►

controlgroup

@ꓢPArcheon Yes

@JourneymanGeek the 4th server? at 167.249.—1.1?

Journeyman Geek

16:41

@controlgroup I've heard mentions of a 'testing' server parented to A51 a few times

But I'd consider that unreliable memory :D

controlgroup

I wonder what goes on there…

balpha

yeah the area51 thing is something else, not another chat site

of course I would say that about about area 51 🤔

anyway, chat.MSE, chat.SE, and chat.SO are the only three production chat instances

controlgroup

interesting that there isn’t chat.serverfault or chat.superuser, given that both of those have their own domains (like SO does

Journeyman Geek

@controlgroup if memory serves that was vaguely considered (to have a server per site) but... it would get unwieldy quick

balpha

they used to have their own chat domains back in the days, but they looked like ghost town because you really only had one or two chat rooms per site

Journeyman Geek

16:45

(and I don't remember if this was chat.mso pre-split)

controlgroup

@balpha oh man

chat.serverfault is no-one’s domain….

balpha

stack overflow was the only one big enough to justify its own chat site, because it has enough small subcommunities

so we decided to merge everything into chat.SE

controlgroup

SO makes sense, though, so I can get behind that

SO is sort of the main site for a lot of users anyway

Journeyman Geek

and even at the most active, I think no one complained

it was pretty easy to join multiple chats once you got your feet wet

balpha

This is Stack Exchange, I'm sure someone complained.

Journeyman Geek

16:47

@controlgroup SO Probably has more activity than all of us combined :D

controlgroup

100%, yeah. I asked a question there once and it was swept up with the stream in under a minute.

@balpha ”complained” and “complained, to any effect” are different here :’)

Journeyman Geek

@controlgroup I mean, I complain a lot, sometimes there's a response, very rarely things actually happen :D

controlgroup

exactly ;)

Journeyman Geek

but lack of effect is often nothing do do with merit, and sometimes even willingness :D

controlgroup

Lack of effect is due to a great many factors, yes

few are under your control

ꓢPArcheon

16:56

@JourneymanGeek you learned nothing.... you stop to soon

Mar 13 at 13:55, by ꓢPArcheon

Journeyman Geek

@ꓢPArcheon I don't really stop. I tactically regroup :D

ꓢPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek you could also try that other one technique, but I fear you aren't adorable enough.

Journeyman Geek

controlgroup

They’re the same picture

Journeyman Geek

@ꓢPArcheon technically I've 3 big complaints being addressed (right now?) one (or two) might in 6-8 depending on how they play it

Maybe even 3

(addressed - chat dev, restarting work on chat, sidebar (currently in testing) chat link)

controlgroup

17:05

Your advocacy is truly inspiring :D

Journeyman Geek

@controlgroup Some people class it otherwise :D

controlgroup

well I class it as inspiring

Journeyman Geek

Thank you

EmmaBee

17:34

^ I just peeped that one marked as spam. Will it get closed as spam, or will someone mention to the new contributor about how links should be used? Some new contributor guidance on answering seems missing, of course, but curious how this is handled today.

M.A.R.

17:46

So I just can't access the survey because I'm Iranian

Could use a VPN but meh

@EmmaBee it's an answer, the question is fine. Usually we gauge, very subjectively but fairly reliably, their intent. If it's a spammer, we flag to get it deleted and move on. When it sounds like a legitimate misguided user, often we comment and ask for disclosure of affiliation and to tidy up the post. Not uncommonly the post ends up being deleted as spam anyway, but that's fairly okay, since

1) The likelihood of 1-reppers coming back is low, let alone their ability and willingness to edit their post into shape. 2) If it does end up being someone who later wishes to contribute to the site, we leave it to site mods and system messages to guide them, and 3) the penalty for spam deletion (-100 rep) doesn't affect 1-reppers.

Having said all that, this post specifically feels like a link-only NAA to me, but I don't even know if Solana is an Italian dish. So it will probably get either deleted as NAA, or edited to include some quotes from those links or some sort of expansion into a proper answer

EmmaBee

@M.A.R. Oh that's very nice and I am glad to hear we try to give feedback to the user.And also interesting that "The likelihood of 1-reppers coming back is low" so sounds like that answer might just sit in a less than ideal state and likely end up in the low quality answer review queue? Maybe it will get deleted eventually?

^ ah yes, you just answered my question.

M.A.R.

Since it's been posted here, it means it was up 5 minutes after being detected and posted on Smokey's main room, and people there hesitated to flag it.

EmmaBee

My understanding is that its a bit of a cultural no-no to go too far in substantially editing and improving an answer, so the best scenario is for the person who answered to fix their answer after they get some feedback?

M.A.R.

@EmmaBee almost always, yes. In exceptional cases where people feel like the answer and the question are really great and should be kept around, the answer turns into a Community Wiki post and a lot of people edit to add to it without restriction

user152859

18:12

@balpha those bots, one day they'll rule the world! :P

user152859

18:40

@M.A.R. yeah and @PetəíŕdtheWizard also can't access it only because of his location. (Russia) but guess it's too late for SE to find alternative? @EmmaBee what do you think?

Petəíŕd the Wizard

@M.A.R. @Sha sadly none of the VPNs work for me, so I can't access it even if I wanted to

user152859

@balpha plays? the WoB still works?

user152859

@PetəíŕdtheWizard yeah looks like Russia has stronger firewalls. ;(

Josh Wolsborn

!!/blame

SmokeDetector

@JoshWolsborn It's EmmaBee's fault.

balpha

18:41

@ShadowWizzard yes!

user152859

@SmokeDetector OMG!

Petəíŕd the Wizard

rofl

Josh Wolsborn

I can assure you all it is NOT @EmmaBee's fault

Petəíŕd the Wizard

@ShadowWizzard sits locked out

user152859

@balpha where? where?? :P

user152859

18:42

@JoshWolsborn ♥

balpha

only in company-internal rooms, as always

user152859

Also, welcome to Tavern @Josh, didn't see you here before. ;)

user152859

@balpha :(

Josh Wolsborn

@ShadowWizzard Thanks! Just jumped in today

user152859

@JoshWolsborn I see. If only the other Josh would be back, would be awesome. ;) (Shog)

user152859

18:44

So that chat banner is your doing? Or not related to you joining?

Petəíŕd the Wizard

hoping

Josh Wolsborn

Yes I would be the culprit

user152859

@JoshWolsborn well, it's stands out in a very, ah, strong way. One can't miss it. lol

Josh Wolsborn

Lol...I think that was the intent. That being said, I told balpha earlier that when I touch CSS bad things happen

user152859

I wonder how many users filled it by now?

balpha

18:45

Look at Shadow being all diplomatic, things are certainly changing around here 😛

5

Spevacus

He minced his words! He's optimistic!

user152859

@JoshWolsborn sounds like me. Same. :P

Josh Wolsborn

If I had my way all applications would run in the console

user152859

@balpha you'll know that things changed when I'll serve coffee to the CEO. ;-)

user152859

Sadly he joined a room without Smokey instance, so couldn't do it even if I wanted. :D

user152859

18:48

But yeah, something big is going on inside Stack Exchange, and for the first time in very long time, it has a good smell.

2

EmmaBee

@ShadowWizzard @JoshWolsborn is the waaaaaaay cooler Josh! (I have no idea who Shog is :P )

@JoshWolsborn The more I hang out, the higher the likelihood things WILL start to be my fault. But yes, as of today, nothing is my fault.

Josh Wolsborn

:-D

The bar has now been set high

EmmaBee

@ShadowWizzard Best solution is to add feedback here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/407158/… The survey is really targeting feedback from newer folks who would not be on meta (although anyone can fill it out, of course) But I would say current users can post on that meta post, and we will see it!

user152859

@EmmaBee ah, all good, you can't know @Shog but he was also a very nice person. And powerful. :)

user152859

@JoshWolsborn ah, so you do know Shog?

Spevacus

18:57

To make a gross understatement, Shog is a former CM who had a great head on his shoulders for community things here. He's sorely missed.

user152859

@EmmaBee I see, thanks!

user152859

@Spevacus one head? Nine heads! :D

EmmaBee

@Spevacus Any notable accomplishments or things he did well we could learn from?

Spevacus

Oh, man. How long ya got?

balpha

@Spevacus Technically he didn't have his head on his shoulders in the early days

Spevacus

18:59

True...

Frog

@EmmaBee if you have lots and lots of time, i'd say click just about any post and read MSO and MSE- and follow the linked posts. you'll run into an issue he weighed in on in no time

EmmaBee

@Frog Good plan!

balpha

^ Shog's early avatar

no shoulders

EmmaBee

@balpha O.O

Spevacus

@EmmaBee I'd take a look at his highest-scored questions and answers, filtering a bit based on question titles according to your preference. Now, you won't get a true sense of some of the times where he's offered advice or said something that needed said in particularly critical or brittle situations, but you'll at least get an idea of how well he was able to communicate important changes and ideas with us, human to human, free from a lot of the HR-speak that's all too common nowadays.

Frog

19:03

i've spent more time than i'd like to admit the past two days just reading and noting things from both, ehe. mostly for making myself a personal timeline- it's been really handy for figuring out what was on people's minds as i'm looking at like, engagement graphs. bc what good is the graph without understanding the motivations and feelings of those behind it, right

user152859

@balpha Shog!! So big and pixelated, but I don't mind. :P

EmmaBee

@Frog I'll have to get some of those notes from you! We can learn together. :)

@Spevacus Thanks!

user152859

@Frog totally right.

Spevacus

One answer that stands out from him in my mind, among a lot, is this one. It's decidedly blunt, and I wasn't here for it, but I have to imagine that kick in the rear helped make Physics start to be truly self-regulating.

I might be out of touch on that one. Again, I wasn't there, and I'm not a Physics.SE user, so I don't know the climate, but... Yeah.

Frog

@EmmaBee absolutely! for a start, i can share lots of the queries i've been writing :D

user152859

19:07

@Spevacus yeah, so direct, so true, and so helpful. Shog style! And sadly such answer won't "pass" these days, most likely. :(

Spevacus

Things were different back then.

user152859

Yup

user152859

Also funny you bring Physics as example, SE is now making there some experiment in chat, still didn't dig into it. CEO said something about sidebar.

Frog

@ShadowWizzard there's a few things going on chat-wise, but this one is pretty straightforward- put a chat link on the left sidebar instead of relegating it to the site footer, and see if that results in a positive increase of chat traffic.

EmmaBee

@Spevacus "Until then, stop whining - you're annoying the folks who are actually trying to get stuff done." O.O O.O O.O

user152859

19:10

@Frog yeah that's what he said:

user152859

in Thinking Out Loud on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 19 hours ago, by Prashanth Chandrasekar

We're experimenting with surfacing Chat on the side bar of the Physics website, so I was curious about user experience

user152859

So is this experiment live now? @Frog

Spevacus

@EmmaBee Not exactly anything I'd expect to hear from a CM today, but... Damn if it doesn't sell the point.

user152859

@Spevacus exactly.

user152859

Need to be someone with enough reputation (not virtual) and power to say something like this in a way that people respect but heck, Shog was exactly that.

Frog

19:12

@ShadowWizzard yep! if you have sidebar active (or just open a private tab), you can see it on at least superuser and physics SE. unsure if there are other sites doing the test though

user152859

@Frog ah it's purple.

user152859

;)

Frog

what if it were purple? wonder no more.

user152859

@Frog well, there's no doubt it would cause a big boost in chat traffic, many people are going to click it and perhaps join rooms. But what would you consider as "positive"?

Frog

19:22

frankly, this is a question i am actively asking myself about, hm, the entire network.
and something i have been asking myself a lot even in the communities i run on my own time.
i'm sure those running the chat experiment have an answer in mind- and i'm gonna go seek out their answer real quick- but to start, i'd actually like to turn that question around on you. and @JourneymanGeek who's been a huge proponent of making chat more visible

what is your ideal outcome from the chat experiment? or more generally, what do you want for the future of chat?

user152859

@Frog to begin with, more staff participation, which is exactly what I see these days, and really happy about it. Then, better tools to moderate chat. MUCH better. Not only for mods, but also for room owners, e.g. perhaps at 10k give RO more powers. Having it in left sidebar might be too much, at least until moderation of chat is improved.

Spevacus

I'd like to see a bit more participation. My only concern with that is, the more you open it up, the more we'll lean on the, as Shadow mentions, rather lacking moderation tools that won't scale well.

I'd also really like to see it be made prettier and more mobile-accessible.

user152859

When someone is not being nice towards others in chat, this must be handled very quickly and in a way that won't scare away the others, and will also let the "offender" chance to improve.

Spevacus

It has a lot of features that are fantastic. Chat conversation bookmarking, the starboard is neat, the ability to move messages around... It just needs a bit more love.

Nurture what's here and then make it popular.

user152859

@Spevacus mobile is important, perhaps I'll take it step further and suggest a new mobile app, just for chat. /cc @Frog

Spevacus

19:28

I mentioned it in my chat research answer, but I'd like to see Room Owners actually own their rooms. They can't "And stay out" anyone. They have to either get a moderator involved if they truly don't want participation from someone, which requires not room-specific rule breaking but site-CoC/ToS rule breaking, add them to their ignore list, or spam Kick-mutes on them that are problematic in their own right.

PM 2Ring

@ShadowWizzard JourneymanGeek showed you a picture several hours ago...

20 hours ago, by Journeyman Geek

user152859

Mobile app will also force SE to finally write actual API for chat, so win-win for everyone. ;)

user152859

@PM2Ring oh shame is on me, still didn't check for old pings, was too caught up here and on other chats. ;)

user152859

So yeah, that's the big thing @Journeyman meant, and nice that mods got heads up about it.

user152859

@Spevacus yeah, adding "Block this user" option for RO might be good, but perhaps too "powerful".

Frog

19:46

@ShadowWizzard there's a lot here I wanna ask but there's actually one specific thing in this i'm most curious about. from your pov, is it a good idea to pin new moderation powers to reputation? or could there be a better system here? granted, rep is how permissions have been doled out for a long time, but the issues with the rep system have been discussed enough to turn the horse a fine mist lmao

Josh Wolsborn

21:09

@ShadowWizzard sorry for the late reply, but I don't think I know Shog.

user152859

21:22

@JoshWolsborn ah, all good. You said "The bar has now been set high" so thought you mean you know him, thus know how high the bar is. ;)

user152859

But there is no bar, you two can't really be compared, apart of the same name. :-)

user152859

@Frog ah that is tricky. Ideally, since we talk about chat "powers", it will take into consideration something that shows the chat equivalent of reputation. But alas, such thing doesn't exist in any remotely reliable way, e.g. stars can be issued just for fun/silly messages, and amount of messages doesn't mean much as well. So the only thing I can think of is quite out of the box, and is "chat only moderators", elected in chat, and per-site only. Crazy idea, I know.

EmmaBee

@ShadowWizzard Can you say more about " API for chat"? A few people have brought this up on the meta post, so I would like to understand more about the need and what an API for chat might enable.

user152859

21:41

@EmmaBee it will enable much better and easier programming of all chat bots, e.g. Smoke Detector which is super useful and important.

user152859

Also, it's modern. It will take chat into the modern times. ;)

user152859

@Jeremy said he already wrote some draft for that, perhaps it's still stored somewhere?

user152859

Mar 15 at 19:43, by Jeremy

@JourneymanGeek Yep, although "working on" only means I wrote a proposal document for a minimum viable read-only chat API, something basic enough to actually have a chance of shipping while at least eliminating the need for fragile transcript-HTML scraping code that had broken. I think it was conservative enough that it probably would have happened, but it hadn't officially started/been approved yet, and it wouldn't have covered a lot of needs but I thought it would be a good starting point. Alas.

user152859

ah, "proposal document for a minimum viable read-only chat API".

user152859

So not sure that's enough for the bots, but still... can be a good starting point.

EmmaBee

21:44

@ShadowWizzard Ah I see. But to play this out: I have also heard that rooms created to deal with curation in chat is a bit of a workaround for the lack of sufficient moderation and curation tooling provided by SE. Hypothetically, if the company made improvements wrt to spam prevention, mod and review tooling, would the need for an API still be as important?

user152859

@EmmaBee those are two different things.

user152859

(API is required to enhance only one part of that, which is the spam prevention by the anti-spam bots but it's not related to chat moderation.)

EmmaBee

Yeah, sorry I am conflating terms, I think. I don't mean chat room moderation, but more like curation spaces in chat to deal with things like off topic questions, spam fighting etc.

user152859

@EmmaBee yeah that would be awesome, but the API can be useful for other things, e.g. writing better userscripts and in theory even someone outside SE will be able to create a mobile app that let users chat in it.

user152859

If it will have to be either this or that, guess the dealing with curation and improving mod tools of chat are more important.

EmmaBee

21:56

@ShadowWizzard Makes sense. Thanks for helping me understand that!

@ShadowWizzard Probably a good topic to deep dive with a larger group of folks who help with curation, but I’m curious: what are the key reasons chat is required for curation? Like what aspects are missing on the platform (e.g.review queues) that make it necessary to build the workflow in chat today?

starball

hi emma and frog :)

@Frog ooh. I like queries too. if you can share publicly I'd love to see them.

EmmaBee

@starball o/ :)

user152859

@EmmaBee no problem. :)

user152859

@EmmaBee faster communication, no need for people to use external applications like Discord/Slack/Telegram to coordinate all efforts.

EmmaBee

@ShadowWizzard Ah so to move out of chat and not rely on a third party solution, review queues would essentially need their own purpose built chat or something, because the need chat fulfills is a space to chat through logistics and coordination. And that's what's missing on review queues?

user152859

22:13

@EmmaBee I don't take part in those myself so can't say for sure, but yeah from what I do know and see, that's about right.

EmmaBee

Ohh I see :) Maybe others will weigh in.

user152859

Well there are many here, @rene @cocomac for example, and others.

Journeyman Geek

22:38

@Frog "small" picture - visibility. Chat's too hard to find, and we very rarely get new users (and my chat proposal is paired with meta). The ideal would be people stumble in, find they like it and we get critical mass. That would backfeed to main site use

in the very micro level, someone who hasn't used chat before turns up :D

Big picture - Chat used to be a big part of the network - in a sense our most engaged users where there, and it was a very very good third space

I'd like to see people use it again, talk about posts there (but not HV) share the neat stuff they're doing for tech sites, discuss things and so on

the ideal is 15-20 active users per main site chat on something the size of SU, maybe 5-10 on a small site.

Journeyman Geek

23:18

@Spevacus least short term, we managed with much more volume

so I think we can manage, and gradually design for the problems we face ;)

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