@ShadowWizard Hello!!! Do you think Iran will retaliate against Israel?

@ShadowWizard Wow. Why not?

@ShadowWizard good thing Pet came back or we'd be elbow deep in spam right now

@ShadowWizard yes, unlike the damage IDF is directly and Iran indirectly doing to the Palestinians and the Lebanese, which is irreversible.

@ShadowWizard Hmmm

@ShadowWizard Right

@ShadowWizard that would truly be the triumph of hope over experience

Ooooof I always wanted to say that

@M.A.R. Israel is just defending itself. Always this ridiculous story of Iran and his friends playing the victim.

@ShadowWizard What?

@ShadowWizard Is my English a little incomprehensible to you?

The Israel / Palestine conflict is a very hot topic here in America, especially online. It's an extremely divisive issue.

@ShadowWizard What is the real truth for you?

I think insulting an Israeli person when they're critiquing their own army's nonchalance is a bit too far.

@ShadowWizard I just cut the snippet and pasted it into my previous sentence.

And, of course, that extends to the new (but also definitely not new) stuff between Israel and Iran.

@Spevacus it used to be. It shouldn't be now, when only one side is committing war crimes.

@M.A.R. Yeah... @Marco Please keep in mind that Shadow is from Israel and MAR is from Iran. It's really, really tough to talk about these kinds of conflicts when the people involved in the conversation's countries are involved in the conflict.

I agree with some people that the term 'genocide' is too loosely used.

@M.A.R. Who insulted any Israeli?

@Sha is oblivious (in a good way)

I interpreted that as a genuine question rather than a snide remark. If it was the latter though... Let's not. :)

@M.A.R. I am not fluent in English, I just asked if my English was bad.

@ShadowWizard it's the plague of the army people around the world. When they're in charge, innocent people get killed and written off as "collateral damage".

@ShadowWizard In my view everything is very clear.

@Spevacus Okay, I know abou it, I'm respecting everyone.

Let's not forget that Kissinger killed 500000 Cambodians and said the political equivalent of "Whoops"

Or was it 100000? Either way it's insane.

@Spevacus Yes, it was, there was just a possible failure in communication, but everything is fine.

Not to mention the slaughter paved way for one of the most brutal regimens in known history.

@ShadowWizard I'm trying to select the bloody text for Google translate and it doesn't select all of it

@ShadowWizard There are definitely individuals, including some in government positions, who advocate for genocidal tactics and policies, and soldiers (particularly unvetted reservists, including some amount of officers) who will either needlessly destroy infrastructure or turn a blind eye to illegal or immoral actions, particularly in the Strip where some people take the opportunity for revenge. I don't believe it's the intention of the state or the system as a whole.

Probably not. Again, the Vietnam war should be pretty illuminating.

Do soldiers regularly use Gazans as human shields? It's quite believable. Does someone explicitly order them to do so? Almost certainly not.

@Marco A good rule of thumb in any international incident is to look at American libertarians to see what the evil mindset is, because they pride themselves on their lack of compassion. Trump has recently been a staunch supporter of whatever IDF and Bibi have been doing.

I hope this isn't too brusque, but I will not respond to further replies of yours, because you will find a way to insult me and derail the conversation.

@M.A.R. I don't think that's a particularly accurate statement. There's reasonable evidence for all parties having violated the laws of conflict, including intentionally targeting civilians or imposing collective punishment. It's also extremely difficult for anyone to independently verify any claims made by either party, so it's very difficult to rely on any information when the claims so often directly contradict each other.

@M.A.R. You have every right to express your opinion, but I also have the right to declare that in my opinion your sentence is completely nonsensical.

@M.A.R. Feel free not to answer me, you have every right, and about insulting you, I have never insulted you, nor am I currently and will never do so.

@Marco Mmm. No, you still need to make sure that your opinions are phrased politely.

@Mithical historically? Of course. Both sides have terrorized civilians on each side of the conflict.

@Mithical Was any of my sentences non politely?

@Marco Yes.

@Mithical Which?

@ShadowWizard well that goes a while back. It makes sense too. As I said, the likes of Trump are opposed to helping anyone because the entity being helped is weak. Israel is weak for receiving American aid. Which is why, in the grand scheme of things, Trump's isolationist schtick is aimed at not helping anyone, even allies, in any way.

I'd have gone for "I don't agree with your characterization of events" as opposed to "What you wrote is nonsensical"

The latter implies stupidity/ignorance/etc.

@Marco The one I replied to.

@Spevacus Is it rude/stupid/ignorant to say that something doesn't make sense? Wow.

Trump and his cronies are the first people to whine when the American government is giving humanitarian aid to anyone, even Americans! Just look at what they're saying about hurricane survivors

@Mithical No, I wasn't rude.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad ns for domain in answer, potentially bad ip for hostname in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (88): Approximate the singular values of a certain random dot-product kernel matrix (in the sense of El Karoui, Cheng-Singer, etc.)‭ by Yohanna Thomas‭ on mathoverflow.net

It's less rude more... Bordering on unkind. Consider the human on the other side of the screen. There are constructive ways to relay what you're trying to relay.

@SmokeDetector k

I disagree (I wasn't rude at all), but I've already ended my conversation.

Oh dangit, I can't be arsed to login

@SmokeDetector K

I/P is a really tough topic to discuss, especially here on SE chat, where folks are potentially from the regions involved. Feelings can be hurt really easy.

@ShadowWizard I don't remember their personal history much. Trump also dislikes Elon because in that last rally Elon stole his spotlight. Narcissists dude.

@ShadowWizard neither of them should be head of state

god no we would've been embroiled in a nuclear war Oct 8th

uuuuhhh no nuclear weapons are very bad actually

@ShadowWizard I see you're an advocate for euthanasia

Personally I think we should press quickload, usually F9

We should have a quicksave before some TV personality started spreading conspiracies about Obama not being a US citizen

I mean, some good things happened since then, maybe keep those

I got a third kidney

Running on turbo charge now

Uh that's it

Back in 2011 there was no ISIS, no covid, no Trump, Elon was still 85% homo sapien, no NFTs, no Tiktok

Nuking me would certainly make my path of life easier. Anyway. Enjoy.

No skibidi

@ShadowWizard no idea. I'm in my own shell and only occasionally dart my head out to see what everyone is ranting about is wrong with the world.

So NFTs are still pretty recent to me

@ShadowWizard Wow, that's some really dark humor.

@ShadowWizard yeah

@ShadowWizard Fire when ready.

@M.A.R. ahoy!

@ShadowWizard :D

@M.A.R. rofl

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly punctuation marks in answer (36): Why visiting saved page in Wayback Machine shows not archived?‭ by user362127‭ on webapps.SE

@SmokeDetector k

@Mithical With all due respect, it's not particularly hard to verify many of the noteworthy claims, and that does not make a difference in the bigger picture. It is also not fair to speak of the parties of the war as equal. The crimes of one party never justifies the crimes of another party.

@Mithical With more respect, it is beyond doubt that the state of Israel and its military forces have been intentionally and systematically targeting the civilian populations of Gaza and Lebanon for ethnic cleansing and genocide, with the goal of occupation and prolonged suffering. It is beyond doubt that Palestinian and Lebanese citizens are seen as a lesser form. Failing to admit that is a mistake, and means you will not succeed in abolishing it. That is unfortunate.

There's so much respect going on I'm getting nauseous.

Let's settle this the Skyrim way, with an old fashioned tavern brawl.

Just be careful not to punch any NPCs or the Armageddon will not wait for Alduin.

In 1936, a Norwegian author and poet wrote: "Du må ikke tåle så inderlig vel den urett som ikke rammer dig selv!"; translated, it roughly means: "you must not tolerate the injustice that strikes you not". He was referring to fascism, and the evil that people did not believe really did exist. Today we are witnessing modern fascism in play. It must not be accepted.

The only way we can succeed with battling evil, is by admitting it is there.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael What I have seen with my own eyes and experienced first hand does not support those claims.

@Mithical I do not know how your personal experiences in Israel and the IDF can contest the confirmed and verified reports from a multitude of humanitarian, intergovernmental, health, and press organizations.

I don't know what specific reports you're referring to, but I will continue to trust my own eyes and ears when it comes to what I'm seeing firsthand and reports from other people that I know personally. I acknowledge that there are significant, long-standing issues, particularly in regard to Gaza and the West Bank, but I absolutely reject the notion that "prolonged suffering" is a goal of the state, particularly in the north, which is the area I'm more familiar with.

The reports are freely available online; I trust your ability to find them if you would like to read them. If you do not agree with the interpretation I have presented, it may be worth pondering on what the purpose with banning access to the press, putting entire cities into ruins, destroying all civilian infrastructure, and blocking humanitarian aid, is. And why Israel is fine with doing to this to civilians just because they're not Israelis.

I've read a large number of reports. And as I'm listening to the rockets impact two minutes down the road right now, I will simply note that war is a harsh reality, but that not every act of war is either a war crime or genocide.

This may come off rather harsh and seemingly without empathy, but excluding the horrible massacres on October 7th 2023, along with similar atrocities in the past, that I also condemn, the situation for you is wildly different, and a far cry from life on the other side. Other than that, I hope you will eventually come to the same conclusions as me, as I believe you will use that to help shape a better future.

I do also hope you would extend to me the trust that I would not label every act of war a war crime or genocide. War is sometimes a necessary evil, but only if used for a good purpose. This is not one.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael What do you want a country to do when it is attacked militarily?

@Mithical Every such situation is unique, thus no answer would be universal. I could therefore not meaningfully provide you one unless for a specific event or set of events, in an appropriate context. Do you actually want me to elaborate on what I would've done after October 7th?

Without the Iron Dome and similar systems, millions of Israelis would have been killed or injured by the rockets launched by Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Iran, including at major civilian population centers such as Tel Aviv. Hezbollah has outright stated that they are targeting civilian towns. I hope the expectation is not that Israel is supposed to just let rockets be launched without repercussion.

Serious action in Lebanon waited an entire year, during which dozens of thousands of people have been forced from their homes and entire towns where I used to regularly visit have been destroyed. Hezbollah began their attacks on Oct 8th, without provocation, and have not stopped since. That's not a situation that any country can realistically endure.

Peace with neighboring countries is possible! Jordan and Egypt have both had peace agreements with Israel for a long while. It'd be really nice if that happened on the other borders as well. Unfortunately, as long as terrorist groups with the outright stated goal of destroying Israel continue to attack from those borders, that's kinda difficult.

I'm not a military strategist or a politician. I don't know what the best solutions are. I just want to be able to live my life without constantly planning around where the nearest bomb shelter is and whether it's safe enough to get on the road, since the roads aren't protected by the Iron Dome.

Or worrying about suicide bombers on the buses again.

Hamas and Hizbollah are both products of Israel's expansion and occupation. Their goals are similar, and in their own eyes, they are both freedom fighters, thus with a common history, cause and pain, they will act together. Therefore, you cannot see Hizbollah's actions independently of the situation in Palestine. That would be pointless. Same goes for other related organizations.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Are you defending terrorists?

Israel is actively occupying land in Palestine and Syria; Hizbollah and Hamas see it as their duties to liberate this land. So as to answer why Hizbollah began launching missiles on October 8th, that's because of October 7th marking a new "offensive".

@AndreascondemnsIsrael No. Hamas is an organically-founded party that has had a dictatorship over the Gaza Strip for years, murdering its political rivals and any dissidents. Hezbollah is a foreign-founded terrorist organization, condemned as such by the Arab Leage, implanted to subvert the sovereignty of its host country. Israel and the Lebanese military have fought Hezbollah's presence in Lebanon together. The Houthis are, as well, a terrorist organization subjugating people in Yemen.

(Including, for instance, barring women from getting an education.)

I'm not interested in hearing any justification of Hezbollah in particular; any glance at its activities during its history should show that it has no standing or legitimacy in the slightest.

@Mithical Hamas was democratically voted into power by a population desperate for freedom from Israel's suppression. That they then took control over Gaza as an authoritarian rule with crimes against humanity, is no reason to undermine the voice of the civilian population, nor invalidate their struggles. Had Israel not occupied and supressed the Palestinian population, Hamas would have no grounds for existence. That its leadership is partially forced into exile, (or prefers it), does

not mean they are not the de facto front of a freedom movement. But the fact that they are, is very unfortunate, in several ways. It exists as an evil that Israel and its allies uses to legitimize the blockade of Gaza, which first and foremost hurts the civilian population. The other most unfortunate consequence is that they will employ gruesome methods in their fight for freedom, which was witnessed on October 7th, when desperation resulted in an unjustified massacre on innocent Israelis.

The Libanese government, as is the Egyptian, are deeply corrupt and authoritarian. They are not elements working for human prosperity, merely building their own power. Egypt is just as much responsible for the blockade of Gaza.

It is therefore natural that Libanese citizens seek other organizations. I am also going to take your suggestion; I am not going to legitimize Hizbollah themselves, merely state they do have a legitimate goal in working against Israel's occupation.

@Mithical Unfortunately, Israel is no different in that sense; It is clear you disagree with the interpretation that Israel seeks to destroy Palestine, and eventually occupy it in its entirety. (I am most certainly aware there are very many Israelis (probably even a majority) that would want none of that. That does not change status quo.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael First off, I think you're conflating cause and effect. If Israel didn't have to worry about "gruesome methods" - such as suicide bus bombings, knife attacks, shootings, etc. - then there wouldn't be the same level of blockades and restrictions on movement. (And such attacks have happened since long before the State was established.) I note that before this war, thousands of civilians from Gaza did have permission to cross the border to work or receive medical care; it's an international border - and has been since Israel pulled out in 2005 and renounced any claim to the territory - and it is treated as an international border, with the vetting and blockades that go along with that.

We can all get lost in the tiny details of who did what or who did when. And that's honestly what we're doing here.

@Mithical Israel did not exist in 1834. Please do not bring up examples that quite honestly, are irrelevant to today's situation. Jews have been victims of many horrendous crimes, as have many other peoples and minorities (I am not downplaying the significance of fascism targeting Jews in the 1930s and 1920s).

@AndreascondemnsIsrael I do not agree with that statement, and I would argue that the inverse is more true: major Palestinian actors seek to destroy Israel and occupy it in its etirety (from the river to the sea).

@AndreascondemnsIsrael I am using it as a counterexample to your argument that the basis of the violence is because of occupation. I am arguing that the violence long proceeds any basis for the claim of occupation.

@Mithical The Palestinian population is also subject to crimes from Israel, be it occupation or violent attacks and massacres from settlers. You cannot justify threats to Israelis as reason to occupy and suppress another people, as can they not justify terrorism against Israelis. It's two sides of the same coin.

There will be threats to Israelis as long as Israel does not respect Palestine's rights.

I am not justifying the violence from the settlers or attempts to take over Palestinian villages, and in fact strongly condemn them. I am justifying security measures that include vetting to screen out terrorists from entering the country.

These security measures are in fact not compatible with human rights, and amount to imprisoning Palestinians. Why should they not be given the same rights and freedoms? Why cannot you extend the same love to them?

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Because if given that access, it's been demonstrated that a certain percentage will target and kill Israelis? Because Israel has a duty to protect its own civilians? Because international borders exist for a reason?

It has nothing to do with love and everything to do with pragmaticism.

In theory, I think the best option is a one-state solution, with Israelis and Palestinians having full citizenship rights and access to all territory currently controlled by those groups, including the religious spaces of all faiths. In practice, I don't see how that's possible with a radicalized population that has a history of suicide bombing and the concept of jihad.

@Mithical Sorry, that is incompatible with my moral compass. All humans are created equal, with equal value, at the core. That they are from one country or another, does not change that fact. It his natural that we care more about those closer to us, that I cannot deny. But these are your neighbors next door, metaphorically speaking.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Where did I imply that they are not equal or have lesser value? I said that an open-border policy is not realistic or safe when you take into account practical history. That's no more equivalent to "imprisoning Palestinians" than any other country that requires a visa to enter.

@Mithical Honestly, I think a one-state solution is the ideal solution long-term, too, but not possible now. I really don't see how Israel is any better than Palestine, and how the two populations are different. There are civilians and terrorists on both sides. But as the more powerful country currently in charge, it is Israel's responsibility to show courage and show way. Unfortunately, Israel elected Benjamin Netanyahu at a point at which peace was on the horizon.

I'm not sure it's entirely fair to say that Israel is more powerful or in charge here when it's currently being attacked by, let's see... Iran, Hezbollah (a large military force), Hamas (the next door neighbor terror group), the Houthis (another terror group)... I'm probably missing some.

Further, earlier, to say that "Out of desperation" Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th... I mean, I don't think people commit acts of SA and kidnapping "out of desperation".

It was to sow chaos and terror. That was the goal. And that was the result.

@Mithical Gaza is locked between Egypt and Israel. It's suffering from poverty and a far too large population sustainable for that area, which has resulted in Gaza being entirely dependent on humanitarian aid. Locking in Gaza has effectively been an imprisonment. And before you make a statement of it, weapons have gotten in, yes, with Israel well aware and able to stop it had they wanted to.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Israel is a mostly-functioning democracy, as opposed to the dictatorship of Hamas or the corruption of the PA. Israel has equal citizenship rights for people of all faiths and doesn't tolerate slavery. Israel doesn't encourage suicide bombing. Israel doesn't murder LGBTQ+ people in the streets. Israel doesn't hold hostages or murder prisoners without cause (see, for instance, Sinwar's brain tumor). That's not to say that Israel is perfect - it's not - but there are very clear differences between the two populations.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Yes, Netanyahu and his capitulations to the far-right are a big issue.

@Spevacus The number of organizations in opposition to Israel is a not a measure of the opposition's force, nor Israel's force. A quick glance at statistics should suffice; 2000 Israelis killed since October 7th, near 50 000 Palestinians killed. Entirety of Northern Gaza is in ruins, with barely any infrastructure intact. Israel is a nuclear power with considerable backing from countries like the USA and Germany.

@Spevacus Militias in Iraq have been constantly sending over attack drones as well, in addition to direct ballistic missiles and drones from Iran. The Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan has taken responsibility for attacks as well.

Meanwhile, Israel is expanding its settlements, doubling down on violence on the West Bank, and fighting a war on two fronts. Israel is obviously and clearly the more privileged part.

@Mithical Worry less about those, they are busy putting Ukraine into ruins, too. (Sorry, needed a "funny" remark)

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Yes, Hezbollah is also using Russian-sourced weapons.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Also, there is evidence that those casualty numbers have been inflated.

@Mithical Yes, and that is illustrative of Israel's power. Unfortunately for the civilian populations of Palestine and Lebanon, there is no such defense there. It is... noteworthy that Israel's enemies can with relative confidence send missiles towards Israel for a statement, and large physchological effect, while Israel retaliates fully knowing massive amounts of civilians will die as a result.

Sinwar's plans fairly explicitly stated that maximizing the reports of deaths in Gaza was a strategy that was effective at turning public opinion against Israel.

@Mithical As you do not believe the international and humanitarian organizations' reports, as well as the numbers from health authorities on Gaza, I also can not believe statements put forth by Israeli leadership, as they have been repeatedly caught lying. Even as they can sometimes provide evidence for their claims, I don't see it changing the overall picture.

What's an example of a lie put forth by Israeli leadership? I'm curious what you're referring to.

@Spevacus Desperation means that you lose hope in other solutions, thus you are either fine supporting extreme measures, or turn a blind eye to it. Sowing chaos and terror is that extreme measure.

After October 7th, Israel and the international world was caught by desperation, hence extreme measures of retaliation were seen as acceptable.

And yeah, given the repeated evidence that a large number of UNWRA employees were actively involved in Hamas or the PIJ, including militants that took place in the Oct 7th massacres, I cannot trust claims by UNWRA or the Gaza authorities, given that they are directly controlled by the dictatorial Hamas government.

@Mithical For instance the daily claims that the murders on civilians were attacks on terrorists?

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Such as?

Do you have an example of such a claim where there's reasonable evidence to indicate that it was an intentionally targeted civilian?

@Mithical 12, even less proven, unless you are talking by made-up evidence of Israeli authorities. These have since been killed or fired from UNRWA, an organization with many times more employees. Can't remember the exact number, but wasn't it 20,000? Nonetheless, cutting support to URNWA is not under any circumstance acceptable, as it means immediately cutting life support for large amounts of the civilian population.

Otherwise, you are effectively claiming that no targets are legitimate at all and that every person targeted by the IDF is a civilian.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael You're again dismissing things as made-up or falsified. Recently there was another Hamas terrorist / UNWRA employee who was killed whose name appeared on a list that Israel sent to the UN months ago.

@Mithical I do hope you see I am not claiming every single kill by the IDF is illegitimate, or an attack on a civilian.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael So what's the basis for claiming that there are "daily" false claims?

@Mithical Honestly, so are you. If you are going to dismiss widely known reports from trustworthy organizations, please extend me the allowance to dismiss claims from authorities I do not believe act in good faith, and I have reason to believe are speaking untruthfully (attacks on press, shutdown/banning of press, former lies, political goals so bad they don't stand the light of day).

@Mithical Many instances of Israeli authorities' information and claims not aligning with those of the free press, and common logic. For example, the IDF has repeatedly defended demolishing apartment buildings with even over 80 dead, majority families and children, by stating it was an attack on terrorists. Common sense tells you those were not terrorists.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael I am dismissing them based on evidence from other reputable sources; for instance, the Human Rights Watch (for an example of inflated casualty numbers and outright lies about the source). I'm asking what the basis for your dismissal is. You mentioned "former lies"; what are those?

@AndreascondemnsIsrael It tells you that there was a significant amount of collateral damage, which doesn't necessarily mean that the target of the strike wasn't a legitimate target. There's definitely room to argue that the collateral damage means that the strike should never have happened and that doing so while aware of the collateral damage is a crime, but that's not evidence that there was no legitimate target in the first place.

@Mithical A military's responsibility is always to protect civilians, and it is never acceptable to knowingly and intentionally kill them as the IDF does, which is happening because the IDF does not value their lives. They would never have carried out attacks like these had there been Israelis in the building. Additionally, there have been several cases, at least early in the war (honestly, I stopped following these after a while), where the targeted "terrorists" were in fact minors.

I think there is something more productive both of us could do in any situation like this.

We should answer each other: what would it actually take to convince ourselves? What would you need to tell me in order for me to be convinced, and what do you require from me should I change any one of your opinions. And if it cannot be done, we should be honest about that.

Because I don't actually think I am able to change your mind. And that saddens me.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael That... doesn't have much to do with what I said, and is also not entirely accurate from the perspective of laws around conflicts; from a moral perspective, yes, civilian deaths are never acceptable, but from a legal perspective it's not as black-and-white. As for the minors, unfortunately, Hamas has a history of using child soldiers, and those as young as 15 are issued rifles and sent to attack Israelis.

Then I ask that the IDF lives up to a higher standard of moral, and only shoots them while they're an active threat, and not bomb them while they're home with their family, in an apartment filled with many more innocents.

@AndreascondemnsIsrael I'm unsure what you're trying to convince me of, to be honest, but to change my opinion I'd need to see actual citations of demonstrated, intentional falsehoods by a reliable source, that didn't conflict with the evidence I've seen for myself.

Since we are both claiming the other one is under the influence of untrustworthy sources and false explanations, is there anything that I could provide that would convince you that you have been given false information?

I believe I just outlined above what that would take.

Right.

And the flip side: What would it take to convince you that Israel is not intentionally committing genocide and that the state - not individual actors - is not seeking to destroy and take over Palestinian territories?

Because remember, I am living this reality. It's going to be extremely difficult to convince me of something that contradicts my lived experience. I do have first-hand experience with the IDF and its regulations, as well as first-hand experience with the conflict on the Lebanese front.

This directly affects my life at all times.

And I hope I've demonstrated over the last ten years here that I attempt to be a moral person and value the truth.

It's hard to say. I know the state in many ways is the result of many individual actors. To me, however, it is not important if it is primarily prominent individuals, not prominent individuals, or a stated goal of the state, to commit genocide. What is important, is that it's happening, and if the state is not advocating for it, it is enabling it. What I would wish to be true, is that it's not actually happening. I don't know how you could convince me of that, after seeing satellite images,

ground images, heard speeches from members of the Israeli government, etc.

Convincing me the civilian casualties are as low as the Israeli ones, would go a long way. But I have seen more statements than proof that these numbers are not high. Most proof as I've witnessed, have amassed to statements by Israeli officials. That doesn't cut it for me.

@Mithical I believe you are living one reality, of one side. I believe you have seen it from one side's perspective with your own eyes. I live neither yours, nor that of the other side. It certainly is way easier to sit on the sideline and have an opinion. On the other hand, it hurts to feel that I can not do anything productive about the situation. But because I'm on the sideline, I think it's easier for me to compare both sides more neutrally.

@Mithical Yes and no. The topic certainly does. The missiles flying over your head certainly do. The fear and uncertainty certainly does. I can't undermine your experiences from time in the military. But I must be honest and say that I don't think you have experienced life as a citizen in for example Gaza. Nor have I, of course (I haven't had a dance on roses, but I didn't experience the same as you nor them).

@Mithical I could not have talked to you for as long if I did not believe that you have good intentions and try to do the right thing. I don't hate you, nor despise you. I want you to have a good life, and I've come to like your presence around these parts. :)

If I was in your situation, with your opinions and understanding of the situation, I might very well would have been far worse to talk to about it. So thank you.

I do have an alarm set to go off in 6 hours and 20 minutes, so I hope it's fine if I'll stop my presence for a while.

@ShadowWizard I've always found it strange that of all the places, Israel refuses to deal with Arab crime

@M.A.R. I'd say preventing 350 million americans dying of nuclear war does seem like a reasonable thing to assign higher importance than creating a new healthcare system.

@M.A.R. I'd say the reason Iran fights Israel is because the government wants israel annihilated and that tends to be something that countries don't agree to

@ShadowWizard Netanyahu can't end the war because Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran won't allow it. Don't fool yourself.